Sunday hunting bill passes house committee

[Steelshot Scott]

It appears the Sunday hunting law will make it to the floor for a up or down vote. If it passes, there will be no hunting on Sunday for waterfowl. Seems that would answer the Sunday hunting problem without costing duck hunters valuable days since the law allows Sunday hunting only on public property.

[KAhunter]

If they are going to do sunday hunting, they should include waterfowl. You still get 60 days to hunt just like we have now. Just gonna be a few days taken to compensate for the addition of the sundays.

[Steelshot Scott]

The problem with that is that if they allow Sunday hunting for waterfowl, they will allow it only on private property(i.e. impoundments and ponds). All public water would be off limits, that includes creeks and streams and beaverponds fed by public water. So we would give up days so impoundment hunters could hunt on Sundays. I don't want that and I bet that 99% of duckhunters would feel the same way if they understood the full impact and restrictions of the law.

[deathupwind]

The problem with that is that if they allow Sunday hunting for waterfowl, they will allow it only on private property(i.e. impoundments and ponds). All public water would be off limits, that includes creeks and streams and beaverponds fed by public water. So we would give up days so impoundment hunters could hunt on Sundays. I don't want that and I bet that 99% of duckhunters would feel the same way if they understood the full impact and restrictions of the law.

Misrepresenting the definition of public waters won't help them understand it either. A creek or stream with a beaver dam across it is most likely private.

[Jimbob]

While I'm not sure that Scott has the definition of public waters right, and assuming that private property bordering public water would not be excluded from the Sunday hunts, let me say this...there are many, many hunters who do not have access to private property from which to hunt waterfowl. Allowing waterfowl hunting on Sunday solely on private property would disenfranchise all of them, and create a subclass who would be discriminated against, by eliminating 8-9 days of their season by sole virtue of belonging to that subclass.

That would be wrong...and that's why waterfowl hunting has been excluded from the proposed legislation.

[dead_fowl]

NCGS 1-45.1


§ 1-45.1. No adverse possession of property subject to public trust rights.
Title to real property held by the State and subject to public trust rights may not be acquired
by adverse possession. As used in this section, "public trust rights" means those rights held in
trust by the State for the use and benefit of the people of the State in common. They are
established by common law as interpreted by the courts of this State. They include, but are not
limited to, the right to navigate, swim, hunt, fish, and enjoy all recreational activities in the
watercourses of the State and the right to freely use and enjoy the State's ocean and estuarine
beaches and public access to the beaches. (1985, c. 277, s. 1.)

[Jimbob]

NCGS 1-45.1


§ 1-45.1. No adverse possession of property subject to public trust rights.
Title to real property held by the State and subject to public trust rights may not be acquired
by adverse possession. As used in this section, "public trust rights" means those rights held in
trust by the State for the use and benefit of the people of the State in common. They are
established by common law as interpreted by the courts of this State. They include, but are not
limited to, the right to navigate, swim, hunt, fish, and enjoy all recreational activities in the
watercourses of the State and the right to freely use and enjoy the State's ocean and estuarine
beaches and public access to the beaches. (1985, c. 277, s. 1.)

We all know that this doesn't mean anything in the counties that have blind laws. Of course, in those ares, the landowners and lessees don't acquire title...they just acquire our rights. And there's no adverse possession involved...it is legislated theft of our public trust rights.

[deathupwind]

Jimbob it appears that duck hunters as a whole are a sub-class in this legislation.

[Jimbob]

Not just duck hunters.

Anybody not owning or leasing private property will not benefit one iota from this legislation, for any kind of hunting.

[Steelshot Scott]

I am not misrepresenting the definition of public water. If you can access any navigable water from public trust water, it is by definition public water. If you can access a beaver pond from public trust water without getting out of your boat and crossing private property, it is in fact, public trust water. I have many times run up and over a beaverdam in my boat. As long as I don't get out of my boat, I am in public trust water. Do you somehow believe that if you are on your land by the river and the water is high and you are hunting from flooded timber that it is somehow not the same water that is out in the channel of the river? If that were so, a person with a boat blind could hunt on your "private" property without permission. I have not misrepresented it. The problem that the public/private water question would raise would be where does private property start and who could hunt the "public" water on Sunday.

Not to mention that it would take 1/6th of the season from everyone to award it to a few.

[Jimbob]

Scott, I can guarantee you that private property adjacent to public waters would be allowed to hunt waterfowl - from shore, but also possibly in a blind in the water, connected to shore - under a "private property only" law. In SC, only gamelands (WMA's) are excluded. It would be the same here, with the additional exclusion of float blind hunters (of course...we are untermenschen in the waterfowl hunting world), because float blinds would not be ON private property.

Under the provisions of the bill that IS actually proposed, you would not be permitted to hunt deer, bear, squirrels, etc. on gamelands, or from water (again, because it's not private property), even water bordering private property.

[dead_fowl]

I am not misrepresenting the definition of public water. If you can access any navigable water from public trust water, it is by definition public water. If you can access a beaver pond from public trust water without getting out of your boat and crossing private property, it is in fact, public trust water. I have many times run up and over a beaverdam in my boat. As long as I don't get out of my boat, I am in public trust water. Do you somehow believe that if you are on your land by the river and the water is high and you are hunting from flooded timber that it is somehow not the same water that is out in the channel of the river? If that were so, a person with a boat blind could hunt on your "private" property without permission. I have not misrepresented it. The problem that the public/private water question would raise would be where does private property start and who could hunt the "public" water on Sunday.

Not to mention that it would take 1/6th of the season from everyone to award it to a few.

I couldn't agree more Scott, I have hunted that way my entire life and will continue to do so, regardless of ignorant land owners/leasers, who think they "own" the creek. The statute I posted above is crystal clear IMHO. I carry a copy of it in my wallet at all times.

Sorry for the derail.

This is a bad bill, and should not pass.

[Turnem N BurnEm]

It appears the Sunday hunting law will make it to the floor for a up or down vote. If it passes, there will be no hunting on Sunday for waterfowl. Seems that would answer the Sunday hunting problem without costing duck hunters valuable days since the law allows Sunday hunting only on public property.

Valuable? I don't consider the first 10 days of our current season "valuable". Yes they are opportunities to public water guys who own a can of bugspray. Except for the chosen few who get their limits these days- I understand your pain.

October

Beginning of November

[Steelshot Scott]

If they allowed the hunting of public water from the shore of private property for landowners only, it would tick me off more than the original plan. I don't see how they could justify it.

I am glad that we get one day a week that the ducks get a chance to rest.

We look forward to the Oct opener every year. It gives us a chance to shake the kinks out of our equipment and gives us a chance to hunt wood ducks and teal. We have traditionally done very well on woodies and the teal hunting has been awesome on some years(not every year). We have been known to take resident Canadians as well.

We were shooting limits of gaddies and widgeon on the Nov. opener this year for the whole Nov break. Shot some teal as well, it is normally early Dec to mid Dec that we have our slow times, it normally picks up right before the season ends. I like the season the way it is as it is the best system to work within the Federal system in our state with out type of hunting(i.e. no public hunting on Sunday).

[Turnem N BurnEm]

Honestly I think not hunting public land on Sundays is "giving in" to the anti-hunters. I do not hunt on Saturdays so Ill take what I can get.

[Steelshot Scott]

It was not anti-hunters that stopped hunting on Sunday, it was the churches. I am from Louisiana and I grew up hunting Sundays before church. When I first moved here, I disliked no hunting on Sunday. But there is a phenomenon here that did not exist in Louisiana, dog hunting for deer.

Problem with dogs is you have no control over where they go once you turn them loose. It was disruptive to churches on Sunday morning when packs of dogs came thru the church parking lot during services, sometimes more than once.

Like I said, I opposed no hunting on Sunday when I first moved here. But, over time, I have come to appreciate it's value in giving ducks a day of rest. Let's just face it, people here don't know how to hunt ducks smart. 75% of hunters here find ducks and hunt the spot. Today. Then tomorrow, then the day after. Then they might take a day off(too tired to get up) and then hit it 4 days in a row. They will hit it every day until the ducks are gone.

A smart hunter would hit it once a week, maybe once every two weeks and hunt it all season. You build up multiple hunting spots and rotate your pressure. But not the knuckleheads, these potlickers blow out the ducks by week two and spend the rest of the season complaining there are no ducks. You should never hunt a good spot two days in a row. Since most of the "fair weather" hunters can only hunt on Sat., this limits the damage they do. It won't stop the college kids that can hunt every day before school, but it does help to lessen the damage caused by working knuckleheads.

I feel your pain on not being able to hunt Sat. due to religious beliefs. However, do what I did, figure out ways to hunt during week. I used sick days, vacation days, I even went to my employer and told him I would be in late two days a week during duck season(coming in around 11:00) but I would make up for the lost time. Because I was his most productive employee, he allowed this as it was only 3 months a year and I still did more work than the guys who were there all day. If you want it to happen, you can make it happen.

[deathupwind]

I will admit that I am no expert on what water is public and what is private but I know that most of the creeks with beaver dams that I have seen are not navigable. Perhaps an easy way to ascertain ownership would be to check the tax map and see if the owner's land goes to the center or edge of the watercourse in question. At this point in time I guess this argument is irrevalent with regards to Sunday hunting because nobody will be allowed to hunt ducks on Sunday in this law. Which is just fine by me.

[deathupwind]

It would be wrong to allow only private duck hunting on Sunday but it works for other types of hunting. This is a good bill. (As longlong as they allow squirrel hunting with dogs. We don't bother anybody. Except for the occasional self-righteous and pompous still hunting deer hunter who thinks that a feist will clear out every deer within milesmiles, never to be seen again.)

[deathupwind]

I like deer hunting but some people take it WAY to seriously.

[Turnem N BurnEm]

Scott- taking vacation to hunt is contradictory to allowing your hunt areas to rest. Plus, I doubt anybody is wasting vacation to hunt the first 10 days of the current season here in NC. I don't understand why taxpaying sportsman cant band together and say that we need 7 day a week hunting on ALL land-public and private, just like 42 other states. Might even get our extra 14 days from the Feds that the central flyway already has over us-DU and Delta need to step up to the plate since our money is funding them.

My friends from Mississippi think I live in some Yankee-communist country full of Obama supporters where Sunday hunting is illegal but gay marriage isn't.

[deathupwind]

Maybe you should go back to Mississippi.

[deathupwind]

BTW. Make sure you remind them that we passed an amendment against queers marrying each other and the federal judges overturned it.

[Steelshot Scott]

I always took off the first 4 days in Oct. to hunt (and still do), I had been waiting for duck season all summer long. I got off Sat. anyway, I burned 3 vacation days(or sick days, or just took them off). We don't allow gay marriage, a Federal judge ruled it legal against the will of the voters of the state.

You will find that here in NC(and I am not a native, but I have been here 35 years)we like it like we have it. You are asking the vast majority to give up 10 days so that a miniscule minority that is so small that it probably defies percentage analysis that can't hunt on Sat for religious reasons can have the days. I don't understand why you don't get it.

I used to know this Jewish guy and he had a interesting take on our country, including Christmas, Sunday blue laws, etc. He said he realized he lived in a Christian country. We were in the vast majority, so he said if he was going to live here, he would embrace our customs. He didn't demand that he get off Jewish holidays and that we change our holidays to accommodate his beliefs. He dealt with it as majority rule. In fact he said he liked the Christmas season because everyone were so cheerful and happy.

Moral of the story is, the wishes of the majority rule(unless a liberal activist judge overturns their wishes) and it does not make them selfish to set up a system to accommodate the majority. Somehow we have become a nation of people who think everything should be fair for everyone at all times and everyone deserves "their fair share". Every kid gets a trophy for baseball, no one keeps score in pee wee football because someone's feelings might get hurt if they lose. Bakeries must cater gay weddings, judges must perform same sex marriages in the name of inclusiveness. Simple fact is life is not fair to everyone in every instance and we need to get out to the mindset that the majority should sacrifice in the name of fairness.

[Turnem N BurnEm]

I remain in disagreement that the vast majority of duck hunters in NC are public land hunters. Blind laws don't allow for a freeforall on the sounds and all of the other decent hunt opportunities are by drawing. I also do not believe the majority takes time off for the October season-you are probably the minority on that one. Lastly, telling someone they cannot hunt on Sunday because of your religion is like telling someone they can't have a cookie because you're on a diet.

Done.

[Steelshot Scott]

Actually it is like 99% of people are on a diet and the 1% are trying to force them to eat a cookie.

[Steelshot Scott]

The more I think about it, it is more like 99% of us are on a diet and 1% want to force us to intravenously inject the calories of a cookie directly into our bloodstream without even letting us eat the cookie.

[deathupwind]

The more I think about it, it is more like 99% of us are on a diet and 1% want to force us to intravenously inject the calories of a cookie directly into our bloodstream without even letting us eat the cookie.

Can you explain this metaphor please?

[Steelshot Scott]

TnB stated that our support of no hunting on Sunday, or at least no duck hunting on Sunday as being paramount to us being on a diet and wanting to prevent him from having a cookie. In other words we were forcing him to adhere to a law that he didn't believe in because we did believe in it.

My statement was humor that equated his desire to change a law the majority likes in order to accommodate a tiny minority with the opposite of his diet/cookie analogy. We weren't trying to force him to diet because we were, it was a law set up to benefit the majority. By him pushing for a law that would force the majority to give up days to accommodate a miniscule minority would be like, using the diet analogy, forcing the majority that was on a diet to break their diet but in a way that would not allow them to enjoy the transgression. Sunday hunting will only benefit impoundment owners and private landowners, so the majority will give up days and not be able to use the days created on Sunday. So the diet/cookie analogy has him forcing us to give up our diet and not even get to enjoy the cookie(i.e. hunting ducks on Sunday).


This is a law set up to benefit the vast majority. To expect the majority to sacrifice for a tiny group is not reasonable. TnB states that he doesn't think most duck hunters are hunting public land. I know a lot of duck hunters. I have been hunting in NC for 35 years now. I know one man in a hunting club that owns a little property he could hunt. Just him. No one else. So most of the hunters(me included) would not be able to hunt those days and the one guy would. And he opposes opening the season on Sunday for the same reason I have already stated. It gives the ducks a day of rest to regroup.

[Steelshot Scott]

The Sunday hunting bill as it exists now allows no hunting before noon and exempts ducks.Seems the law would have no adverse effects on duck hunting.

[Jimbob]

Doves are out, too.

[IGOTTEM2]

How about coots? They don't migrate, they just bury in the mud.